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I am not sure if you had the means to access Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or perhaps not, because it is written as the a resource to have People in america which have colonial forefathers out-of Plantagenet ancestry. He gets as one of his proofs one Joanna is brand new mommy out of Gwladus Ddu the reality that Llewelyn offered this new characteristics away from Knighton and you can Norton castles within the Shropshire so you’re able to Ralph Mortimer whenever he and you will Gwladus have been married. It could was basically illegal for Llewelyn to offer Joanna’s property so you can an enthusiastic illegitimate child (otherwise individual that wasn’t an infant regarding Joanna). This new functions out-of Norton and you can Knighton stayed regarding the Mortimer household members after that. The latest estimate try, “When the Queen offer Property in order to a person having a lady of their kindred during the honest wedding, in addition to lady dyeth rather than matter, the man on the Leaders instance will maybe not hold on a minute to have their life, since lady was the cause of the latest current.” Put simply, the latest properties will have reverted returning to the crown ahead of it would have been provided to an infant who had been perhaps not Joanna’s.
Hello, Marilyn, I didn’t have access to the latest Plantaganet Ancestry from the Doug Richardson, but did get access to the numerous conversations of your and their concepts together with other genealogists (particular for your, but some also against). I do believe, while i produced in my personal prior papers, you to definitely what swings it personally(Joanna as the mother of Gwladus), ‘s hottest single pakistani girls the transfer of your functions your talk about to Ralph de- Mortimer on his ed two of the students ‘John’ and you will ‘Joan.’ I can not imagine that in the event that Gwladus was the newest ded their unique pupils hence. Regardless of the arguments between the eminent genealogists We discuss a lot more than, there’s a standard consensus one to Gwladus Ddu might be fairly identified as the daughter of Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth of the Joanna, child (subsequently legitimised) out of John, Queen regarding England. I would ike to just take so it chance to accept Sharon (during the an email if you ask me) you to Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian is actually from the Tangwystyl and not Joanna, and therefore are bloodstream sis to help you Gruffudd. We foot so it partly for the a contemporary record utilized in ‘Royal or other Historical letters Illustrative of your reign regarding Henry 111,’ modified of the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. On pages 500-503 is the transcript from exclusive letter old Marshall, Earl of Pembroke, so you’re able to Queen Henry 111. Within this letter, Marshall covers his siege of the castles from Crum, Kilmore and you can O’Realy. The guy listings people the guy based in the castle O’Realy when it surrendered, it integrated: “…uxor Wilelmi de- Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de- patre ainsi que matre, mais aussi uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, mais aussi mater dictorum Willelmi mais aussi Thomae ….” I am told this particular means that i’ve right here Gwenllian, daughter out of Prince llywelyn, whom is apparently named ‘sister out of Gruffudd.’ As we know Gruffudd to be the fresh new illegitimate child off Llywelyn, it is drawn one ‘de- patre mais aussi matre’ ensures that Gwenllian and you may Gruffudd were full bloodstream cousin and you will sister. Got Gwenllian come Joanna’s child hence King Henry’s relative, definitely Marshall could have commented thereon reality? It failure from de Lacy’s wife just like the king’s relative, was taken as close certain facts one Gwenllian was not brand new child of the king’s sis Joanna.
These attributes have been section of Joanna’s maritagium out-of their dad Queen John
Ken: Thank you for you to mention of the Gwenllian. I am most certainly not an expert genealogist, but I do a great amount of browse by myself traces. I believe some of the “pros” are incredibly envious and you can angry of every most other (at least apparently method in a number of of all things it blog post). You will find things that we’re simply not gonna learn with full confidence from the people in brand new MA because they didn’t keep public information such as for instance we do today, thus genealogists and historians need to use their best view from inside the sorting things aside. In reality, vital records try a pretty “new” design – of several states in the united states don’t continue info out-of births and fatalities through to the very early 1900’s. We get into numerous ancestry societies where I have had in order to prove 11 otherwise several generations, and you will believe me it is not easy. So i most take pleasure in the trouble of contrasting MA forefathers. (While the sad question is the fact that the info available toward MA was of the royalty and you may nobility – nothing anyway for the prominent somebody).
